What is the name of this cv?

[gk80]

Hello, do you know the name of this cultivar? And do you have any ideas to cross it?



And also, I have this one without name... do you know the name of this one?





Thank you very much!!

[cortona]

the first one is  an ornatum cultivar usualy called fukuruyu hannya aka dinosaur, it can cross wit myrio and with plain fukuruyu.

[gk80]

Thank you cortona!!

[fanecchissimo]

the second one seems a hybrid of asterias v-type with miryo...

[cortona]

in my opinion it looks more like a sk x capricorne probably an f2

[fanecchissimo]

may be, but to me the capricorne give some more acute rip... just my opinion

may be a multihybrid 
asterias x capricorne X asterias x capricorne

[cortona]

exactly wath i means as a capas f2

[fanecchissimo]

so we do agree!