Cactus Cultivars

Author Topic: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?  (Read 8603 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline robinast

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Saare-Tõrvaaugu aiand
Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« on: Monday, 29 July 2013 - 19:08:47 »
Last year, I tried to cross the Astrophytum caput-medusae with several other astros - with zero results. From several flowers, I got only one seedpod with several seeds that did not germinate. So this year, I even did not try anything and as at the present, I only have one flowering plant, I let it just flower... To my greatest surprise, every single flower (four seed pods are already removed if you count the seeds pods on the photo) gave a nice full of seeds pod this year! Don't know yet, are the seeds viable or not - but I'm going to sow the seeds soon; maybe tonight already . :)

I've always thought that all astros are self-sterile and so the A. caput-medusae as well. Does anyone know is it so or not?
Some pictures from my collection:
http://e-aiand.com/kollektsioon/index.php

Offline Carlo & Daniele

  • Admin
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
    • Picasa - Carlo & Daniele
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #1 on: Monday, 29 July 2013 - 19:12:42 »
Hello!
Once we otained one fruit from caput medusae crossed with murio kikko nudum.
It was late summer and there were only those 2 flowers in the greenhouse so we did the pollination.
The caput medusae produced one fruit, but seedlings were normal caput...
Carlo & Daniele

Offline robinast

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Saare-Tõrvaaugu aiand
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #2 on: Monday, 29 July 2013 - 19:27:12 »
Hmm.. that hints that at least in certain circumstances, it may be self-pollinating or even apomictic. This way or another, I'll find out soon. If the seeds will germinate, the Astrophytum caput-medusae is self-fertile (well, at least my plant!).
Some pictures from my collection:
http://e-aiand.com/kollektsioon/index.php

Offline fanecchissimo

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 360
  • Karma: 0
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday, 30 July 2013 - 16:29:41 »
i got 1 clone only and this year i have 2 seedlings from it. so i think it is self fertile. :)

Offline robinast

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Saare-Tõrvaaugu aiand
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday, 07 August 2013 - 08:33:41 »
The seeds sowed in the 29th of July have started to germinate: by now, about 10% have germinated. Thus, it really seems that Astrophytum caput-medusae is self-fertile. Good news!  :)

(Sorry, photos are not very good...)


Some pictures from my collection:
http://e-aiand.com/kollektsioon/index.php

Offline Karlet

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday, 07 August 2013 - 19:08:40 »
Hello everyone, I believe it is not self-fertile. Many growers friends that I know and myself use a very simple process to get pure seed when you have a single plant that is considered self-sterile. Let's have a astrophytum X, I take the pollen from another plant species, for example a lily and pollinate aX I leave to spend about a half hour and pollinate aX with its own pollen. In 80% of cases will have pure seeds of a.X. The pollen alien, unlocks something that makes that aX is self-fertile, technically I can not give precise explanations but I assure you that it works.
Carlo

Offline andrea.a

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 168
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #6 on: Friday, 09 August 2013 - 11:43:26 »
I read about this tecnique also for Lithops, but there is something I'd like to know: the seedlings you get from this self pollination are like normal seedlings or like clones? I mean: if you normally pollinate two of them, do you get seeds or not?
They should be genetically all the same, or not?

Andrea.

Offline robinast

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Saare-Tõrvaaugu aiand
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #7 on: Friday, 09 August 2013 - 11:55:54 »
Clones of motherplats grow from seeds in a very few cases: only apomictic plants (quite a few citruses and certain Malus sieboldii genotypes f.e) produse seedlings that are clones of the mother plant. I have no idea does the apomixis accur among Cactaceae or not.
When generally self-sterile plant forms seeds after self-pollination, the seedlings usually suffer more or less from inbreeding depression - one of the effects of which, I think, may also be the lack or deficiency of chlorophyll. :)
« Last Edit: Saturday, 10 August 2013 - 12:56:24 by robinast »
Some pictures from my collection:
http://e-aiand.com/kollektsioon/index.php

Offline Karlet

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #8 on: Friday, 09 August 2013 - 17:39:45 »
I read about this tecnique also for Lithops, but there is something I'd like to know: the seedlings you get from this self pollination are like normal seedlings or like clones? I mean: if you normally pollinate two of them, do you get seeds or not?
They should be genetically all the same, or not?

Andrea.
[/quote
The plants that you will be like clones I think, having only the genetic heritage of the mother. I do not know to tell you if you can pollinate each other, but I would not do for problems of consanguinity. My object is to have more plants identical to the mother, in the future I'll have a lot of plants that will be crossed not equal to each other, but with a clone or plant new mother, who in the meantime I hope to get hold of, so you do not have problems with inbreeding. This is what I think.
Clones of motherplats grow from seeds in a very few cases: only apomictic plants (quite a few citruses and certain Malus sieboldii genotypes f.e) produse seedlings that are clones of the mother plant. I have no idea do the apomixis accur among Cactaceae or not.
When generally self-sterile plant forms seeds after self-pollination, the seedlings usually suffer more or less from inbreeding depression - one of the effects of which, I think, may also be the lack of deficiency of chlorophyll. :)
You are right, but I always stopped at the first generation and had no problems. I think most go on to pollinate each other and you will have more problems plants, but introducing new genes from the first generation onwards will not have, having the advantage of having many plants from which to make many seeds. ;)

Carlo

Offline fanecchissimo

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 360
  • Karma: 0
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #9 on: Sunday, 11 August 2013 - 11:31:32 »
when seeds of my digito will flower i will try to obtain other good seeds breeding the two plants, and we will see. i think they are not as pure cloning, due to all the epigenetical information (such as histones acetilation, episomes and so on) which can be carried to sons or not.

Offline robinast

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Saare-Tõrvaaugu aiand
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday, 17 September 2013 - 10:21:27 »
Last fruit this year - and developed again without artificial pollination. Most likely self-pollinated.




Some pictures from my collection:
http://e-aiand.com/kollektsioon/index.php

Offline Karlet

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #11 on: Saturday, 21 September 2013 - 11:03:46 »
A rich fruit seeds, I'm never so lucky ... Good sowed now!
Carlo

Offline robinast

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Saare-Tõrvaaugu aiand
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday, 21 September 2013 - 19:26:00 »
All this plant's fruits have contained 20...40 seeds this year. It flowered the first time last year, but did not give any viable seeds then.
Some pictures from my collection:
http://e-aiand.com/kollektsioon/index.php

Offline robinast

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Saare-Tõrvaaugu aiand
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday, 23 October 2013 - 22:48:12 »
As I did not have Pereskiopsis stock handy and the Selenicereus hybrid I use for seedling grafting, seems not to be just very good for A. caput-medusae, I tried Opuntia humifusa. The grafts took normally and though the growth has not been very good, the grats still grow faster than own-rooted seedlings (1-3 tubercles against a single one).
Some pictures from my collection:
http://e-aiand.com/kollektsioon/index.php

Offline danskibsted

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 249
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #14 on: Thursday, 24 October 2013 - 07:42:32 »
Very nice work!
Dan

Offline robinast

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Saare-Tõrvaaugu aiand
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #15 on: Thursday, 24 October 2013 - 09:09:02 »
Thank you, Dan!
Some pictures from my collection:
http://e-aiand.com/kollektsioon/index.php

Offline robinast

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Saare-Tõrvaaugu aiand
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #16 on: Saturday, 23 November 2013 - 19:50:46 »
The seedlings, both grafted and on their own roots, develop nicely. The grafted plants are growing faster - but actually, not that much (on the Opuntia humifusa rootstock). Look at the ownrooted seedlings:

Some pictures from my collection:
http://e-aiand.com/kollektsioon/index.php

Offline vitostarkiller

  • Semi-Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Some of my plants et al.
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #17 on: Sunday, 24 November 2013 - 05:41:00 »
IMHO, and under Chilean outdoors conditions, the best grafting stock for caput-medusae seems to be Harrisia Jusbertii.

:)
"Life is full of cacti, but you don't have sit on them"

Offline robinast

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Saare-Tõrvaaugu aiand
Re: Is Astrophytum caput-medusae self fertile?
« Reply #18 on: Monday, 06 January 2014 - 21:02:47 »
By now, it's clearly seen that grafts on the Opuntia humifusa grow faster than the Astrophytum caput-medusae seedlings on their own roots:

Some pictures from my collection:
http://e-aiand.com/kollektsioon/index.php

 

Copyright © Carlo & Daniele